{"id":155949,"date":"2016-11-02T17:26:06","date_gmt":"2016-11-02T21:26:06","guid":{"rendered":"\/news\/?p=155949"},"modified":"2016-11-02T17:26:06","modified_gmt":"2016-11-02T21:26:06","slug":"bustles-guide-to-arguing-with-pro-lifers-fails-on-every-level","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/archive.liveaction.org\/news\/bustles-guide-to-arguing-with-pro-lifers-fails-on-every-level\/","title":{"rendered":"Bustle&#8217;s guide to arguing with pro-lifers fails on every level"},"content":{"rendered":"<div style=\"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;\" class=\"sharethis-inline-share-buttons\" ><\/div><p>At Bustle, JR Thorpe <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bustle.com\/articles\/192061-5-common-arguments-against-abortion-disputed\">purports<\/a> to help readers \u201cargue effectively with some of the most common ways in which people try to deny the importance of abortion access.\u201d Here, we\u2019ll put her tips through the paces and show that their effectiveness leaves much to be desired:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Anybody who says that abortion is dangerous to the mother\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.mariestopes.org.uk\/women\/abortion\/surgical-abortion-explained\/what-are-failure-rates-and-risks-abortion\">can just be directed to Marie Stopes&#8217; informative website<\/a>, where the extremely low risks of surgical and nonsurgical abortions are laid out in great detail for their perusal.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>That, by the way, would be the same Marie Stopes that <a href=\"\/news\/mare-stopes-halts-surgical-abortions-over-untrained-staff\/\">halted its surgical abortions in August<\/a> after it came out that their staff was inadequately trained, so take their safety assurances with a grain of salt (they <a href=\"http:\/\/www.lifenews.com\/2016\/10\/10\/marie-stopes-resumes-abortions-despite-report-showing-it-putting-womens-health-at-risk\/\">resumed in October<\/a>\u2026\u00a0<em>before<\/em> the release of a report on the matter, so who knows what, if any, steps they really took to shape up).<\/p>\n<p>Further, abortion\u2019s vaunted safety (for the mother) <a href=\"\/news\/nice-try-daily-beast-but-texas-is-not-lying-to-women-about-abortion\/\">flies in the face of evidence<\/a> that abortion reporting is marred by <a href=\"\/news\/lozier-institute-gives-oklahoma-minnesota-high-marks-abortion-reporting-data\/\">wildly inconsistent (and sometimes nonexistent) standards for abortion data reporting<\/a> and misclassification of abortion-related deaths as simply \u201cpregnancy-related,\u201d as well as studies finding that abortion increases risks to the mother\u2019s life.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>[The argument] that abortion creates a way to escape responsibility for one&#8217;s actions, and converts the serious matter of pregnancy into a disposable problem with no repercussions [\u2026] is actually contradicting other pro-life arguments, which argue that abortion is highly traumatic and difficult for the woman&#8217;s psyche and body.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Seriously? The <a href=\"http:\/\/clinicquotes.com\/top-4-reasons-women-give-for-having-an-abortion\/\">vast majority of abortions<\/a> are expressly sought to escape pregnancy, childbirth, and\/or parenthood; the fact that the procedure may inflict <a href=\"\/news\/debunking-narals-lies-about-crisis-pregnancy-centers-part-two\/\">physical and mental harm<\/a> on them\u2014risks their friendly neighborhood Planned Parenthood either neglected to mention or falsely claimed wouldn\u2019t happen\u2014doesn\u2019t contradict that in the slightest.<\/p>\n<div class=\"ArticleAd1\">\n<p><!-- \/1011927\/LAN_300_by_250_top_article --><\/p>\n<div id=\"div-gpt-ad-1473179053567-0\" class=\"ArticleAd1a\"><script>\ngoogletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1473179053567-0'); });\n<\/script><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<blockquote><p>The reality is that every woman&#8217;s experience is different. There are those who find the experience unproblematic, and there are those who face serious challenges at various points in the process, from the choice to have the abortion to finding supportive people during and after the procedure. Abortion, whether it&#8217;s done via a pill or with a surgical procedure, is not regarded flippantly, or as a way to avoid more complicated responsibilities. It is, in and of itself, often a complicated and heavy responsibility. Anybody who doubts that should check out the archives of the #shoutyourabortion hashtag on Twitter, which encompassed the vast breadth of reactions experienced by real women who&#8217;ve had the procedure.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Translation: <em>just take my word for it. <a href=\"\/news\/medias-abortion-blinders-on-full-display-in-piece-about-satanists-abortion\/\">Read some anecdotes<\/a>, as if <a href=\"\/news\/post-abortive-women-shouting-abortion-regret-speaking-life\/\">contrary<\/a> <a href=\"\/news\/pro-life-activist-will-not-shout-abortions\/\">anecdotes<\/a> <a href=\"\/news\/new-book-equates-killing-a-baby-with-removing-a-wisdom-tooth\/\">don\u2019t exist<\/a><\/em>\u2014to say nothing of the fact that Thorpe seems to have forgotten what argument she was even responding to here. Women have varying reactions to their abortions, therefore they weren\u2019t trying to escape something? Huh?<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>[The argument] that access to abortion makes girls and women more sexually active, which is a bad thing [\u2026] is largely rooted in the notion that female sexuality is somehow corrupting and dangerous. The notion of the only acceptable female as either virginal or sexually submissive to her husband isn&#8217;t just outdated;\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/everydayfeminism.com\/2015\/06\/promiscuous-women\/\">it&#8217;s rampantly unrealistic and anti-feminist<\/a>.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Yet again, we see that pro-aborts\u2019 preferred method for \u201crefuting\u201d pro-life arguments is to swap them out for arguments that aren\u2019t ours. \u201cFemale sexuality is corrupting\u201d? \u201cThe only acceptable female is virginal or submissive\u201d? Please, if a pro-lifer saying anything of the kind actually exists, by all means show us.<\/p>\n<p>As for our actual argument, that behavior which increases risks of unwanted pregnancy, <a href=\"https:\/\/pjmedia.com\/blog\/in-defense-of-slut-shaming\/?singlepage=true\">sexually transmitted diseases<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/thefederalist.com\/2014\/08\/08\/stop-pretending-sex-never-hurts\/\">and mental or emotional anguish<\/a> might not be the greatest thing in the world for <em>either<\/em> sex, Thorpe helpfully illustrates the pro-abortion mindset by questioning \u201cthe assumption that \u2018promiscuity\u2019 is itself a bad thing.\u201d<\/p>\n<div class=\"ArticleAd2\"><!-- \/1011927\/LAN_300_BY_250_mid_article --><\/p>\n<div id=\"div-gpt-ad-1473179101244-0\" class=\"ArticleAd2a\"><script>\ngoogletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1473179101244-0'); });\n<\/script><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>The next \u201canti-abortion argument\u201d Thorpe sets up to knock down is the idea of abortion as a \u201ccontraceptive alternative,\u201d that \u201cinstead of using contraceptive methods to prevent conception, like condoms, the pill, or IUDs, they\u2019d prefer to have unprotected sex and then use abortion to \u2018deal with it\u2019 as an alternative.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>She responds by citing statistics showing that most women primarily rely on contraception to prevent pregnancy, only resorting to abortion if it fails or they can\u2019t access it\u2026which is all well and good, but another straw man, as pro-lifers don\u2019t suggest women consciously rely on abortion as their first resort.<\/p>\n<p>Even so, it\u2019s worth noting that while \u201cabortion as contraception alternative\u201d may not be the norm, it isn&#8217;t\u00a0unheard of. Some pro-aborts <a href=\"\/news\/pro-abortion-blog-supports-abortion-as-a-method-of-birth-control\/\">openly champion the idea<\/a>, and <a href=\"\/news\/clinic-escort-woman-who-had-10-abortions-is-empowered\/\">praise women<\/a> who have <a href=\"\/news\/abortion-as-birth-control\/\">nine or more abortions<\/a>. 44% of abortions <a href=\"http:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/roomfordebate\/2013\/06\/30\/coming-out-on-abortion\/openness-would-reveal-the-shocking-number-of-abortions\">are repeats<\/a>, with 20% being a woman\u2019s third or more.<\/p>\n<p>Next, in response to the argument, \u201cisn&#8217;t it a better idea to carry a child to term and then give it up to those who want it, rather than aborting it,\u201d Thorpe first points out several of the <a href=\"\/news\/abortion-vs-adoption-why-so-many-choose-the-first-and-what-we-can-do\/\">problems with the US adoption system<\/a> that make matching children to parents difficult. However, these are reasons why we should be talking about <a href=\"http:\/\/thefederalist.com\/2015\/10\/01\/we-need-to-make-adoption-easier\/\">ways to reform adoption<\/a>, not proof that the system is so hopeless that we should kill children instead.<\/p>\n<p>Besides, if the adoption system is such a mess, then shouldn\u2019t Thorpe be more concerned about Planned Parenthood <a href=\"\/news\/planned-parenthood-discourages-adoption-promotes-abortion\/\">actively discouraging adoption<\/a>, or its <a href=\"\/news\/analysis-government-funding-increases-planned-parenthoods-abortions\/\">adoption referrals amounting to<\/a> less than one percent of its abortions (160 abortions for every one adoption referral)?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/qtgqxvaV-8U\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>She also notes that while adoption gets someone out of parenthood, it doesn\u2019t help them avoid pregnancy or childbirth. True\u2026 but pro-lifers don\u2019t cite it as an answer to pregnancy. It\u2019s simply meant to answer objections about not being ready to raise children.<\/p>\n<p>Finally, Thorpe takes aim at the argument that abortion allows men to exploit women:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The biggest response to this is that women are indisputably in charge of the decision to have an abortion the vast majority of the time. The\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.guttmacher.org\/about\/journals\/psrh\/2005\/reasons-us-women-have-abortions-quantitative-and-qualitative-perspectives\">Guttmacher Institute surveyed 1,209 patients at American abortion providers, with in-depth interviews<\/a>\u00a0with 38 women, to provide a comprehensive overview of the reasons women sought abortions [\u2026] Fewer than one percent of the respondents said they were doing it because their partner or their parents wanted them to.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The <a href=\"\/news\/how-independent-is-guttmacher-from-planned-parenthood\/\">Guttmacher Institute&#8217;s<\/a> findings were favorable to abortion? <a href=\"\/news\/guttmachers-defense-of-deleted-pregnancy-data-falls-short\/\">Who could have guessed<\/a>?<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_41693\" style=\"width: 310px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><img aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-41693\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-41693\" src=\"\/news\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/10\/000fetus-300x203.jpg\" alt=\"A developing unborn child\" width=\"300\" height=\"203\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-41693\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">A developing preborn child<\/p><\/div>\n<p>Of course, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.unfairchoice.info\/pdf\/FactSheets\/ForcedAbortions.pdf\">other studies<\/a> have found that women report some sort of pressure in more than half of abortions. There are also documented cases of <a href=\"\/news\/bombs-bullets-and-abortion-here-are-the-facts-that-ilyse-hogue-and-naral-pro-choice-america-dont-want-you-to-know\/\">physical threats<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/clinicquotes.com\/the-coerced-abortion-epidemic\/\">financial coercion<\/a> to abort, not to mention <a href=\"\/news\/women-get-punishment-abortion-abusive-men\/\">an abundance<\/a> <a href=\"\/news\/no-sexually-active-women-arent-scary-coerced-abortions-are\/\">of &#8220;bro-choice&#8221; men<\/a> <a href=\"\/news\/bro-choice-guys-need-abortion-because-dude-your-sex-life-is-at-stake\/\">who openly advocate<\/a> <a href=\"\/news\/5-bro-choice-tweets-that-show-why-some-men-support-abortion\/\">abortion as an escape<\/a> from getting tied down to the women they use for sex.<\/p>\n<p>Thorpe closes out by noting that there are also women pressured <em>into<\/em> pregnancy by their partners&#8230; as if that fact somehow negates the existence of bro-choicers. Pro-lifers are willing to condemn anyone who uses violence, influence, or intimidation to pressure anyone into <em>or<\/em> out of a pregnancy. Care to join us, JR Thorpe?<\/p>\n<p>The ultimate failure of this guide, of course, is what it doesn\u2019t mention.<\/p>\n<p>Even if every one of Thorpe\u2019s points were correct, none of them address the <a href=\"\/news\/the-science-of-abortion-when-does-life-begin\/\">basic<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.abort73.com\/abortion\/medical_testimony\/\">undeniable<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.ehd.org\/prenatal-images-index.php\">essential<\/a> fact that she\u2019s talking about killing children. But from the pro-abortion perspective, it\u2019s just as well that she ignored the only argument that really matters\u2014try as they might, no debate guide could ever truly overcome it.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>At Bustle, JR Thorpe purports to help readers \u201cargue effectively with some of the most common ways in which people try to deny the importance of abortion access.\u201d Here, we\u2019ll put her tips through the paces and show that their effectiveness leaves much to be desired: Anybody who says that abortion is dangerous to the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":54,"featured_media":90754,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false},"categories":[6],"tags":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v20.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Bustle&#039;s guide to arguing with pro-lifers fails 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dedicated to the principles of the American Founding\u2014individual liberty, limited government, public virtue, free markets, and strong defense\u2014though he believes no issue is more important than defending the unalienable rights of society\u2019s most vulnerable members. Calvin is an editor and administrator for TheFederalistPapers.org, and his work has appeared on NewsRealBlog.com, PatriotUpdate.com, LifeNews.com, LifeSiteNews.com, RightWisconsin.com, AmericanThinker.com, Stream.org, AmericanClarion.org, and more. Please check out his official website, ConservativeStandards.com. 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